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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1981.08.13_City Council MinutesOn Thursday, August 13, 1981, the Owasso City Council met in a Special Meeting in the Council Chambers at City Hall, per the Notice of Public Meeting and Agenda posted on City Hall bulletin board at 1:30 PM on August 11, 1981, and by refer- ence is made a part hereof. This Special Meeting was called for the purpose of discussing the restructuring of the Department of Public Safety. ITEM 1 - CALL TO ORDER. The meeting was called to order at 7:09 PM with Mayor Spencer presiding. ITEM 2 - FLAG SALUTE. Flag salute was led by Mayor Spencer. ITEP4 3 - ROLL CALL . Present: Boyd Spencer, Mayor Dennis Burke, Vice Mayor Al Lambert, Councilman Steven Clark, Councilman Phyllis Gross, Councilwoman Kenneth Thompson, City Manager Harold Charney, City Attorney Wauhilleau Webb, City Clerk Absent: None ITEM 4 - DISCUSSION REGARDING RESTRUCTURING OF DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY. Motion was made by Dennis Burke, seconded by Steve Clark, that the meeting would not continue later than 10:00 P?1. Ayes - Messrs. Spencer, Lambert, Burke, Clark and Mrs, Gross Nays - None Motion carried. Mayor Spencer asked Mr. Thompson if he supports the Department of Public Safety and Mr. Thompson answered he supports the concept of the Department of Public Safety, although it has it's disadvantages, and he commented there has been a lot of outside agitation to the personnel. Mr. Burke asked Mr. Thompson if he felt we need a Director of Public Safety if we have strong Police and Fire Chiefs and Mr. Thompson said yes, to coordinate and oversee the department heads on budgeting, personnel, training, allocating equipment, etc. Mr. Thompson said the person needs to be an administrator more than a fire or police person. Dr. Clark asked Mr. Thompson if he didn't feel that was exactly what our. problem was with Vic Lombreglia, allocating equipment when he did not have personal knowledge of the equipment and did not purchase department needs. Mr. Thompson replied that each department has their own budget and the final. decision for large purchases has to come to the City PZanager or the City Council. Mr. Thompson commented that some of those people were not accustomed to having someone inter- fere with their spending and personnel. Owasso City Council Page Two August 13, 1981 Mayor Spencer said in regard to purchase of equipment he recalls some items that were sent up through Revenue Sharing that were turned down because they were not budgeted in Revenue Sharing. Dr. Clark felt the Department of Public Safety was not accepted by a good por- tion of our community and we should analyze the cost effectiveness of it. Dr. Clark outlined what he would like to see happen in this area: 1. At least two department heads, combining the Fire and Ambulance, but opposed to sending people to OSU, such as policemen, and prefer we do our own in-house training. 2. Paramedics to hold cross-training and have people who are interested in learning lifesaving rather than just first-aid. 3. Cross-training not be mandatory but have pay incentive for individuals to take the training. 4. Not having another head of Department of Public Safety, as Lombreglia caused hate and discontent, but would like to see a personnel type per- son and equipment responsibility stay within the departments. 5. A professional person to come into the departments to set up a manual. 6. Higher esteem with our Police and Fire. 7. Allocate the money saved on a Director's salary to the people that were promised raises in those departments but did not receive them. 8. Need to individualize uniform identities. 9. Utilize the present uniform for the Police Department as the uniforms look nice. 10. People have hard feelings about how the department was started and it should have been publicized more. Felt perhaps we could even let the people vote on it. Mr. Charney referred to the State Statute concerning a fire department not ser- ving under a Police Chief, and a Fire Chief having three years actual experience as a paid firefighter, and commented we are a home rule-city~.and our charter overrides State Statutes. Mrs. Gross said she had called around in Oklahoma where they have had a Depart- ment of Public Safety and learned the expense was much greater than they had anticipated and the personnel was not as qualified as they Liked and it has created turmoil and they have all been abandoned. Mayor Spencer asked what cities she called and she could not remember. Mr. Lambert commented if we should consider going back to the 'gold way" with a volunteer fire department as we had harmony then and the discontent did not begin until we hired "professional" fire fighters. Dr. Clark felt the departments have not had good direction and he didn't feel Mr. Thompson has been able to give that strong direction from the top. Mr. Charney commented he has been in Owasso for 26 years and everytime we have tried to find a magic leader we still had problems. He said if we fired every policeman we have, in the next three to five years we will still have trouble. He cautioned new Council. members about taking credit now for the department being better and told them to be prepared to answer for what is happening, just Owasso City Council Page Three August 13, 1981 as the other three are answering now. He said they must realize this is always a troubled department. P4r. Thompson said he would support any concept the City selects but you have to try new ideas but some of them will fail. Dr. Clark said he would like to see one set of guidelines per department. He would also like to see better patroling and not so much "goofing off" at City Hall. Lyle Wasserman said we need to get back to the point, which is public relations. He said we are having problems in this town that could be avoided if we had a good man in the Police Department to whom they can go. He referred to the dis- cussion at a budget hearing meeting that we need to pay people more and have fewer people. He said the Police Department must go out and work with the public. He also said if a professional consultant is hired to set up guidelines for the departments that people from the community should set in on any decisions that might be made. Mr. Joe Ross addressed the Council that he is the culprit that created the City Manager form of government. He said he is a Captain in the Volunteer Fire De- partment and in the last six months~~~e have brought the Fire and Ambulance De- partments up to a standard that can't be beat, and the only thing he has found amoung the paid people is they would like to go back to their old blue uniforms. He said they are well equipped. Dr. Clark responded we have only had that for the last two months as we did not have a paramedic and we dial not have in-house training and what we have now has nothing to do with the Department of Public Safety and again stated our Policemen do not need to go to OSU for fire training as some of them resented having to take the training. Mr. Burke responded to Dr. Clark that it has never been mandatory to take the training, it has always been voluntary and, although there may have been some pressure to attend, that was never the intent of the City Council. Mr. Lambert asked Mr. Ross if he felt the Department of Public Safety will work and Mr. Ross replied yes, but you have to have a strong person to run it. Mr. Lambert then asked if we could make a volunteer department work and Mr. Ross again said yes but he would not want to go back to it although there are some towns with over 100,000 population run completely with volunteer fire departments. Dr. Clark stated he would like to see monthly training in the Police Department, including shooting. Mr. Burke commented that several months ago he stated if we had started the De- partment of Public Safety by first starting a volunteer cross-training program we would never have had any comment except for possibly changing the uniform, and he feels that statement is still true. Mr. Thompson said we do not have the staff to attempt all the changes we need to make and we have need of a Director of Public Safety to coordinate, budget, personnel, space needs and training programs and that person should be an admin- istrator and not be involved in the day-to-day operation of the departments. Owasso City Council. Page Four August 13, 1981 Mr. Burke referred to a comment Bob Randolph had made that with the right per- son the program would work within 90 days, rather than the six months that had been predicted. Mr. Randolph. asked if a man could spend all his time for just two departments and Mr. Burke said probably not but he would also be over Pub- lic Works and other areas. Mr. Randolph then suggested making that person an Assistant City Manager and Mr. Burke said that has been discussed. Mayor Spencer recessed Owasso City Council at 8:37 PM and reconvened at 8:45 PM. Mayor Spencer asked the public for any comments they wished to make. Joe Ross said he felt the Department of Public Safety is a good concept and thinks the fire and ambulance should stay together but the administration part is the key to it. Jack Ashby commented one thing that has not come out is the public needs to know what they have right now. He said he has worked with the present paramedic and he is excellent but we need to try to keep these people. Tom Kimball said he would definitely like to see us go back to each department with their own uniform as it seems to be important to them. He said he would like to see a Police Chief and a Fire Chief, as the title is important to the public. He felt we should immediately get the right uniforms and not phase into it and let the departments select their uniform, and also felt we need someone between the City Manager and the Police and Fire Chief but need to be careful ~' and not have too many administrators. Mr. Lambert reminded Mr. Kimball they were invited to select the uniforms they are wearing today but Mr. Kimball said that was after it was decided to have a Department of Public Safety. Mr. Lambert reminded Mr. Thompson that he was approached by the Council about the need of an Assistant Manager and at the time he said he felt other things were more important and he would notify Council when he needed the position. Mr. Thompson said that was correct. Mr. Thompson said on the uniforms he would agree to something that would dis- tinguish the departments but keep the uniforms basically the same. He also commented on the pay incentive for cross training as being one of the main ideas of the Department of Public Safety. He also made the statement that we did eliminate the ambulance department costs in administrative salaries. He made the statement that the Police Department deals with the public in unpleasant situations so they are open for criticism, and we have the Teamsters Union now because of all the criticism they receive and it is all negative, never con- structive. Dr. Clark said we have a pseudo-Department of Public Safety and agrees totally that the ambulance works well under the Fire Department and that it should stay there. He again stated he did not think we need to cross-train at OSU and questioned if the people who received cross-training received their raises. Mr. Burke asked Mr. Thompson if he wanted an Assistant City Manager and Mr. '" Thompson replied yes. Mr. Burke directed him to come to the Council with his request. Owasso City Council Page Five August 13, 1981 Motion was made by Dennis Burke, seconded by Steve Clark, to continue Depart- ment of Public Safety with recommendations from the City Manager to the City Council regarding changes he wants to make. Ayes - Messrs. Spencer, Lambert, Burke, Clark and Mrs. Gross Nays - None Motion carried. rir. Thompson was directed to make his recommendations by September 1st. Mr. Lambert asked Mr. Thompson if he recalled the conversation they had recently where Mr. Thompson made the statement that he felt the Mayor was losing confidence in him and Mr. Lambert said the Mayor wasn't the only one. Mr. Thompson said he recalled the conversation.. Mr. Lambert said the discussion was regarding Mr. Thompson's management attitude being one of "wait and see" and Mr. Lambert was still holding off to see if that attitude works and said he felt Mr. Thompson has the capability of being a fine City Manager but it is going to take a lot on his part. Mayor Spencer requested all Council members to make a job performance appraisal on Mr. Thompson and submit them by October 30th. Being no further items on the Owasso City Council Special. Meeting agenda, Chair adjourned at 9:30 PM. Boyd M. Sp cer, Mayor Wauhilleau Webb, City Clerk