HomeMy WebLinkAbout1979.03.22_City Council MinutesOn Thursday, March 22, 1979, the Owasso City Council met in
Special Session, in the Owasso Community Center, per Notice of
Public Meeting and Agenda, referenced and made a part hereof.
Present: Boyd Spencer, Mayor
Robbie Fickle, Vice Mayor
Don Thompson, Councilman
Robert Wrestler, Councilman
Wayne Meyer, City Manager
Harold Charney,-City Attorney
Wauhilleau Webb, City Clerk
Absent: None
The meeting was called to order at 7:40 PM, with Mayor Spencer
presiding.
Mayor Spencer announced that this meeting was being taped.
Playor Spencer introduced those seated at the head table and ex-
plained the purpose of this meeting was to resolve differences
of opinions of the refuse collection.
~Zayor Spencer asked Council members if they had any remarks they
would like to make before getting into the meeting.
Mrs. Fickle said she did not.
Mr. Wrestler said he would like to speak. His comments were:
"Some of you may not know but I was seated on the Council two
weeks ago and was not on the Council at the time this vote took
place to initiate this refuse service, but I would like to let
you know in the past six months I have tried to attend every
Council meeting to get my feet wet on what the Council does, be-
fore I put in my candidacy to get on the Council. I do support
what they did but I wanted you to know I did not officially vote
on this trash service."
Don Thompson made the following opening comments: "I would just
like to report to you citizens my reasons for what I did as one
of your City Councilmen. This began approximately July of last
year in which we negotiated a new contract with Mr. Sallee. At
that time we gave him a contract for City refuse service based
on a prescribed amount of money, and a prescribed amount of de-
livery. Since the inception of that contract, City employees,
through the City Manager, have indicated we have had constant
problems. In September, November, twice in December and twice
in January trash became an item on the agenda of the City Coun-
cil. Comment has come to me that there was no problem and I be-
lieve if this item came before us this number of times for con-
sideration that there was a problem somewhere. On January 30th
Mr. Sallee submitted his resignation as our hauler which in my
opinion created an emergency as he gave us 30 days notice. In
that ensuing 30 days we made contact with many private carriers
in and around the area but we did not get a firm offer from any
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Two
carrier, as far as I know. Carriers from remote areas were con-
tacted and did give us a bid. That bid is the same system the
City installed and at the same price, as far as per household
rate is concerned. As early as August the Poly-Kart system had
been discussed by the City Council in connection with the con-
tractor at that time because he was having labor difficulties
at that particular time. No agreement was reached. At that
point he was in favor of the Poly-Kart system. He told us that
he thought it would be a good deal. The Council met on Febru-
ary 6, February 9, February 12, February 13 and February 20,
all public meetings attended by almost nil of the public. All
of those meetings were posted in City Hall. Two of them were
adjournments of previous meetings in which public was present.
r'Iy feeling and my reasoning for installing this particular sys-
tem is that I felt like that if a private contractor was going
to bill the City at $5.50 per household per month he was going
to make some money at it. In view of that I felt like the City
could make some money at it. If a private contractor can, I
don't see why city government can't. If a profit is made out
of it, the revenues simply go to help operate the government and
in this time of strapping taxes I think it is better than a tax
increase. The Trust Authority financier has indicated that we,
the City Council, were still responsible for the collection of
the fees, irregardless of who operated the system. In view of
that we could not turn loose of the collection and give it to a
private contractor. We still had to be involved. If you are
involved in the collection, and the bill comes from City Hall,
then the people are going to look to City Hall to supply the
service. That being the case, I feel like we have better con-
trol if we have our own people doing the job. Another problem
that exists in contracting with the private carrier, and I`4r.
Sallee knows this, and it was a problem with he, is that the
City cannot issue a contract for any longer than one year. It
is quite an investment for a contractor to invest the kind of
money that is required for a one year contract. It makes no
difference whether we want to enter into a longer contract, the
law says we can't. But there was another reason. I felt like
if we were in control of our own destiny we would have better
control. We made a trip to Springfield, Missouri, to see a
Poly-Kart system in operation. I was very impressed with its
efficiency. I have studied some of the Poly-Kart systems that
are in use and have had some good reports from them. Based on
these facts that is why this Councilman voted in favor of in-
stalling this system in this City at this time."
Mayor Spencer's opening comments: "I would like to say why I
went for this, for the benefit of the City. There were several '""""
reasons, but I am not going through them all. But I learned the
City of Owasso is required to furnish you people with trash ser-
vice. That was one of the things we had to look forward to. I
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Three
know it was a hard decision to make, probably one of the hardest
I've had to make sitting on this board, but as far as I am con-
cerned it was my own conviction that it was going to work. We
are going to have trouble just like anything else you initiate,
but when the time comes, this thing is going to work smoothly.
To back me up on what I say, State Bill 313 going through the
House and Senate right today is "mandatory solid waste collec-
tion expanded health department regulations" that is the heading
of this bill and it requires all cities and towns operate or to
provide for garbage collection and disposal system, defining
sewage sludge as solid waste and requires it be disposed as solid
waste,el!iminates requirements that cities and towns be notified
of possible changes of rules for State Board of Health to adopt
regulations. So, that is the new bill, that the cities of the
State of Oklahoma have got to furnish trash service, regardless
of whether they are in it or a private contractor."
Mayor Spencer advised there are Guidelines for this. meeting,
which were printed and distributed to everyone present, and by
reference made a part hereof.
Steve Mudd was spokesperson for the Concerned Citizen's Group and
said: "First of all I would like to bring out the fact that we
had our town meeting first of all to discuss the trash and refuse
service and the steps taken as we did not understand it and as we
got going a lot of folks did not understand it. We have had a
lot of input that has been both pro and con, supporting the sys-
tem or desiring an option. I would like to remind and publicize
the order of business that was brought up by the Concerned Citi-
zen's Group, and these we would like to restrict our activities
to, and these are what the Council will recognize. First, to
allow for public input, discussion and decision to form a citi-
zen's committee for the purpose of providing public opinion to
city government. Second, propose and see how much support there
would be for a petition to change the City Charter and ordinance
to the effect that residents would have the option of contract-
ing with the City or a private hauler for the removal of refuse
without a penalty to themselves or a private hauler; that the
City would be ably to maintain and enforce refuse control stan-
dards and prevent the accumulation of trash or allow a public
nuisance to exist by the accumulation of refuse. Third, con-
sider resolution or petition the City calling for modification
of City's emergency clause to the effect that an ordinance when
published should then be tabled for at least thirty days to
allow for public input prior to Council vote. In the event an
emergency action must be taken to preserve the public peace and
welfare we would hope it would be subject to reconfirmation
within 90 days and the organization of an action committee, first
to allow for public input and the organization of a committee to
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Four
do those things that have been accomplished. The other two is
to propose for a petition, look at the support, and look at the
public opinion and also consider a resolution to the City con-
cerning the use of the emergency clause. The questions that
were raised I would like to turn back to the City as they do
have copies of the minutes of our meetings and ask them to com-
ment on them."
Steve T°iudd: "Have the Poly-Karts been approved by the Fire De-
partment?"
Boyd Spencer: "As far as I know I don't think that the Fire De-
partment was asked, but they could have been. I don't know that
there is a fire hazard there. There is a fire hazard to a trash
can, someone could come by and put their cigarette in it."
Steve Mudd: "Explain determination of an emergency. The Fact
Finding Committee felt the City had determined an emergency leg-
ally and properly but there are a lot of folks here that haven't
been to the meetings so I would like to ask the City to explain
their determination of an emergency if they would make a state-
ment."
Mrs. Fickle: "According to our Charter, and I think the State
law, we are required to supply refuse service to our citizens
whether it be put on the street or by the houses and, since Mr.
Sallee resigned the last day of February, yes, there was an
emergency. We had to do something. There were various ways we
could have gone about it but this, after much study and thought
and seeking to find a solution to this problem, this seemed the
most feasible way to go about this and I don't really think the
problem was all the City's. I think we were given an ultimatum
more or less that Mr. Sallee would resign, and he resigned as
we expected and this is one of the services that we as a City
should provide for you in what manner we thought was best."
Steve Mudd: "Comment was made by several people there was not
an emergency as Mr. Sallee offered to continue his service while
bids for alternate systems could be considered."
Mrs. Fickle: "If i•Zr. Sallee offered
and completely unaware of it. He did
Steve ~-1udd: "This we have by several
which we have been supplied."
Mrs. Fickle: "Do you know that for a
Steve Mudd: "I have a letter."
to do that I was totally
not tell me that."
persons and by letter of
fact?"
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Five
Mrs. Fickle: "I did not receive a letter nor did I receive a
phone call, nor did I receive a special visit advising me that
Mr. Sallee would remain."
Steve Mudd: "We have a copy of a letter that was represented to
have been offered to the City to continue service as long as was
necessary to consider bidders."
Mayor Spencer: "Steve, you are stating that this letter was de-
livered?"
Steve Mudd: "No, all I am saying is that we have a copy of a
letter represented."
~~
Mayor Spencer: But it was never delivered to the City so the
Council could be advised of it?"
Steve Mudd: "I don't know."
Steve Mudd: "The previous contractor stated he offered to sell
his equipment to the City without response to this by the City.
In my discussions with the City I was informed that the equip-
ment offered was to be outlawed by the EPA in forthcoming legis-
lation and was advised in a certain period of time it would be
unacceptable. At this point we were advised by the contractor
that the present equipment could be made acceptable through mod-
ification at about $25.00 per unit."
Don Thompson: "Mr. Sallee did make that offer, there is no
doubt about it. I acknowledge that. However, one of Mr. Sallee's
major complaints was he can't keep the equipment running. On
that basis, as your City Councilman, I could not justify spend-
ing your money for a piece of equipment that he couldn't keep
running. And that is one reason why I did not consider the pur-
chase of his equipment."
Mayor Spencer: "Steve, T would like to make a comment on that
too. I think that since we were faced with this problem and the
equipment that Bud Sallee had everybody in this room knows that
to operate the equipment he had efficiently he must have a
driver and two men running behind the truck going from house to
house. This system we've got and all of you know, and I know
that most of you have seen this operate, that only one man and
a truck is operating that garbage service and doing one super
job."
Steve Mudd: "How do you consider that one man and one truck can
operate as efficiently in either system where the truck has to
be moved from residence to residence. One man would have to get
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Six
out and unload it. I have seen the sales promotion on one of
these systems where they advertise that one man can operate it
and I asked and they said, well, you had to have two, one to
overate the truck and one to operate the loading system on the
truck. Am I correct in assuming with just two people only one
side of the street can be worked at a time?°'
Mayor Spencer: "Not necessarily, but I think Bill Williams can
answer that if he would like to comment on it."
Bill Williams: "The reason we do operate
is that we operate on the right 'nand side
worked two people operating the system we
traffic which is a safety hazard. The on
operate and you can operate with one man.
it does work with the one man."
on one side at a time
of the street. If we
would be crossing the
side is the way to
We have done it and
Mayor Spencer: "Steve, I would like to say one thing. On Cedar
at 4th Street Monday, a week ago, I timed that fellow from the
time he left that first house until he got down to TZr. Cramers,
and I believe that there are nine houses, but I could be wrong,
and from the time he picked that first one up on the corner of
4th behind my house, in 72 minutes he was at Cramers house get-
ting his Kart. Now, you tell me you can beat that."
Steve Mudd: "I couldn't. One of the more important questions
that most of the people are concerned with, and this was the re-
sponsibility and legal responsibility of the use or damage re-
sulting from the use of the Poly-Kart and whether, first of all,
if the Poly-Kart was stolen whether it was the obligation of the
resident to replace City prooerty, and also the question of the
children playing in the Karts or dar~lage resulting from the Y.art
and its use or misuse or use by another person, or something
happen and the Tart rolls into the street causing a traffic
accident, who is responsible?"
Mayor Spencer: "Steve, you've got too many segments there, give
me only one at a time."
Steve Mudd: "Okay, let me back up and go to the resident being
responsible for the Poly-Kart being stolen."
T~ayor Spencer: "My personal observation is I think if you are
taking care of it like it should be taken care of in your back
yard or in your garage, if someone steals it there is no doubt
in my mind, that if they would be honest and fair with the City
Council, I'm just going off the record here, I believe the City
will rut another Kart there."
Owasso City Council
~!Iarch 22 , 1979
Page Seven
Steve Mudd: "What about a case where the Kart is on the curb
and something happens to it, or if a person refuses to take any
responsibility for it?"
Mayor Spencer: "I think he is liable for it."
i7rs. Fickle: '°I think our City Attorney should respond to that."
Harold Charney: "That is a good question who is responsible.
Sometimes we attorneys ride the fence and never give you an ans-
wer because sometimes we really don't know ourselves. If you
own a garbage can and you lose it you are responsible for it and
you buy another one, do you not? Okay, now then, the City has
chosen to furnish you with a garbage can at the City's expense
and I do not think that the loss of these Poly-Karts, as a mat-
ter of policy, will be tremendous unless people deliberately
abuse them, take them off or try to burn them or rebel or some-
thing like that, and I believe the City has charged enough money
where they can replace Poly-Karts for those that might be occa-
sionally stolen or abused or misused by somebody else. It is
going to have to be a matter of City policy to say whether or
not that they are going to hold the public liable for the Poly-
Karts. glow then, it is City property. Being City property, we
have an ordinance against destruction of City property and you
cannot deliberately abuse it or~~tear it up anymore than you can
come out and throw a rock through the window of this building.
That makes sense. But you should know that if you are innocent
and somebody comes along and takes your Poly-Kart, it is going
to be your responsibility. I can't answer that as that is going
to have to be a matter of policy for the City Council to decide
whether they want to pass an ordinance, so making you liable for
it in any instance. So as of this time I don't think we have
such an ordinance, and I would say that since it is City pro-
perty and if you do not destroy it yourself and that you have it
properly where it belongs, that you will probably not be held
responsible for the loss of it. Now, if you put it in your
driveway and don't secure it very well and it happens to roll
down the street into the front of a car and the Kart hits it
and does it damage, I think you are responsible for negligently
placing it. If your car rolls out of your driveway backwards
into another car you are responsible. This gets down to a mat-
ter of negligence, not automatic responsibility nor liability
but of negligence. With any negligent act, with your property
or the City's property, or anybody else's property, you are lia-
ble for it. Other than that, I don't think you have any liabil-
ity for the Kart. I think if a child comes and crawls in it and
pulls it down over his head, you are not liable for that. In-
cidentally, there are airholes in these things. If they get in
your trash can, you are not liable if you own you own garbage
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Eight
can because you have done nothing that is negligent and the
mere fact that somebody gets hurt on your property doesn't
make you liable for their hurt. There has to be negligence
on your part to cause them to be hurt. We can conjur up all
kinds of situations about this Poly-Kart being the equivalent of
an atomic bomb. I can't speak for the policy of the Board but
right now I would say that the Board would have a difficult time
from a legal standpoint holding you responsible for a Poly-Kart
somebody has stolen and unless they put you in charge of it by
ordinance then you would look after it like your own garbage
can. Does that answer about the Poly-Kart sufficiently?"
Steve Mudd: "I believe it does to my notes. Now the next ques-
tion we had raised was concerning the smell with weekly refuse
pickup verses bi-weekly refuse pickup and the question raised is
the Poly-Karts do hold more than two trash cans which is what
most people use, but do they hold more than two twice a week?"
Mrs. Fickle: "The Karts are 80 gallon Poly-Karts, and if you
generate more refuse than can be contained in the 80 gallon con-
tainers, the people will pick up bagged trash setting beside it.
We have allocated one day a week, as you noted in your minutes,
for clean-up day; and, as far as odor is concerned, until we
actually get into it, I don't know that we can say it will not,
but we do know the manufacturer of the Kart said it will not
create odors as badly as a can does. If you are careful with
your Poly-Kart and keep using bags like you do now, paper bags
or plastic bags, and if you close those bags, that stops your
odor problem. With proper care and proper washing you should
have no problem with your Poly-Kart and I really feel you will
not have that problem."
Question from audience (did not identify herself): "What about
the pickup day on Wednesday? Do we have a special cleanup day?
I wasn't at the last meeting."
Steve Mudd: "I will let the City answer that because the City,
to our information, allocated that day to catch up and to pick
up extra ordinary refuse, pickup days lost because of holidays
or down time or heavy refuse, to put a little slack in the sys-
tem."
Boyd Spencer: "I'll be honest, I didn't know that Wednesday
had really at the present time been designated for this service
to go into effect. I think it will go into effect later but I
was thinking that it was something like we had last year for
yard clippings. Am I right or wrong, Bill?"
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Nine
Bill Williams: "That's what I planned on doing, Mr. Spencer.
You notice how we have containers down by 4th Street. They are
kept there for people that's got excess trash and things like
that. We do service those containers probably two or three
times a week. We are getting trash down there. They are there
for the citizens to use."
Steve Mudd: "What's the location on that again?"
Bill Williams: "4th and Forrest Drive, out by the park."
Steve Mudd: "Okay, there are containers placed at 4th and For-
rest for excess refuse. In case there was a misunderstanding,
we weren't advocating extra pickup on Wednesday, just explain-
ing the fact that the day was left open so that there would be
flexibility as far as holiday and schedule. You are going to
have days where refuse service falls on a holiday, and if there
was some information as to what day a person would put his Kart
out if it falls on a holiday, it would be helpful."
Mayor Spencer: "I would like to say one thing. Mr. Williams
mentioned about those containers down there. As many of you
know, last year we tried to do this. We thought we were doing
a good service to the City of Owasso. That was the intent for
us to do it, but I tell you what, I was called down there three
times and there was one morning where I had a pretty good break-
fast but I lost it down there. People brought dead animals,
they had been out fishing on the lake and brought their dead
minnows and everything else and the flies were just pitiful,
that's all there was to it. If we don't take care of that down
there at the park the same thing will happen.
Mr. Osmond: "Can people ask questions as we go along?"
Mayor Spencer: "Just as long as you identify yourself. What we
are trying to do, Mr. Osmond, is have one person at a time to
keep down a lot of commotion and two or three speaking at a time.
If you want to speak, you go ahead."
Jim Barnes: "There are a lot of us men around town that try to
save a couple of dollars and do our own maintenance on our cars.
What is going to happen some real cold morning when somebody
drops a dead battery from one of those Poly-Karts. Mr. Sallee
never refused to pick up anything I ever had, spare parts off my
car or anything else, and there are other men just like me. Is
the City going to refuse to pick up this heavy stuff?"
Mayor Spencer: "As far as I am concerned, a battery, tailpipe
or muffler is not your household garbage."
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Ten
Tom Seaton: The way I see it the truck has_ an arm that comes
out and picks"up the Kart. What happens if a child is playing
hide and go seek and one of them happens to get caught in that
Kart and that thing gets it. A man could see a kid before he
would throw it in there and crush it. That arm comes out there
and throws trash in there and it wouldn't be seen and I fear an
accident like that."
Mayor Spencer: Well, I tell you, I hope that never happens,
that would be bad, but the same thing could happen just as easy
with a garbage can and get hung and suffocate just as easy as
with a Kart. A guy could empty it with a bunch of other stuff."
Steve Mudd: "Would it not be possible for something like that
to be prevented if it were City policy to make City employees
aware of that possibility?"
T~Zayor Spencer: "That's true Steve, before that man would empty
that Kart the guy has got to open the lid."
Steve Mudd: From what I have been told, all they have to do is
disconnect the strap; they don't have to open the lid to check
before it is dumped into the compactor."
Bill Williams: "You can see the contents of this Kart as it is
dumped into the container. The compactor is operated by a push
start button. It's also got one that can stop it. It's got so
many safety features that if you've got something in there you
can stop it just like that (snapped his finger). You can ob-
serve the trash as it goes in."
Kyle Neighbors: "I would like to ask Council, we have been de=
signated days for our trash to be picked up, and I have yet to
be picked up on that day. Are you going to realign collection
days so we can have them out there on the proper day or leave
them just like they are?"
Mayor Spencer: "You say your trash hasn't been picked up?"
Kyle Neighbors: "Not on the day it is suppose to be specific-
ally picked up."
Mayor Spencer "Have you called in and complained?"
Kyle Neighbors: "Who do I complain to?"
Mayor Spencer: "You call into City Hall?"
Kyle Neighbors: "Well, on our instructions it says not to leave
them out past 7:00 PM.
~~
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Eleven
Robbie Fickle: "That's true, sir, but did you not receive a bro-
chure with a trouble number for you to call on it?"
Kyle Neighbors: "I am unaware of a trouble number but a gentle-
man came by and said we won't be able to get you today, you know,
tomorrow. I mean this has happened every week."
Robbie Fickle: "Did he get it 'tomorrow'?°'
Kyle Neighbors: "Yes, but this has happened every week. Al-
right, if it is going to happen every week why not regulate this
to the next day instead of having to set it out two days in a
row and leave it setting there all day for two days in a row.
One side of the street gets picked up and the other side doesn't."
Mayor Spencer: "What is your address?"
Kyle Neighbors: "I live at 1604 North Cedar. I mean if there
is going to be a private pickup every week, why not designate it
as a private pickup instead of us putting it out there all day
Thursday, bringing it back in Thursday night, putting it out all
day Friday."
Bill Williams: "At that particular area up there we did have
some problems and the boy did miss him twice. I went up myself
and picked it up one night."
Kyle Neighbors: "After 7:00."
Bi11 Williams: "Yes, sir. But I wanted the trash picked up.
Another thing, we had a breakdown and it just so happened that
the breakdown happened on 19th Street just above you. That
night I went around and gave everyone I know of a letter saying
we will pick you up the next morning, leave your Karts out.'
Kyle Neighbors: ".Right, you notified me in person, and I appre-
ciate it, but this had happened every week and I mean it has not
been picked up on Thursday before 7:00 PM since we've had it."
Bill Williams: "You were a victim of circumstances; we had a
breakdown and we had two misses there and I'll assure you that
the next time you will be picked up, as you were today."
Kyle Neighbors: "So we will go ahead and keep the same pickup
day?"
Bill Williams: "Yes."
Wayne Roberts: "The question I would like to have answered
would be how much refuse was the City picking up per pickup
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Twelve
prior to Mr. Sallee leaving, how much refuse each time it was
picked up, how many gallons?"
Mayor Spencer: "I don't really understand the question. Are
you referring to the contract Mr. Sallee had?"
Wayne Roberts: How many gallons of garbage were we allowed to
set out at the curb and expect to be picked up prior to this
new system?"
Mayor Spencer: "Three 30 gallon cans twice a week."
Wayne Roberts: "The last contract was three 30 gallon contain-
ers twice a week, which is 180 pounds of garbage to be picked
up per week. How many gallons is the system we have now?°`
Robbie Fickle: "Your Poly-Kart will hold 80 gallons, and as in-
dicated earlier, you may also bag that trash and put it beside
that Poly-Kart and the people will pick it up."
Wayne Roberts: "Another 100 gallons a week they will pick up?"
Robbie Fickle: "I believe Mr. Williams told me he will pick up
bagged trash."
Bill Williams: "We haven't turned down anyone's trash yet and
I don't intend to have our people turn down trash. We picked up
ten sacks today at one place and eight sacks at another. If
you've got trash out there we are going to pick it up and take
care of it. That's what we are .here for, we are in the business
to do that, so regardless of what you've got out, and the people
can testify to this, we are going to pick up the trash. We want
it in sacks and in the container that we furnish. We are going
to get away from the can system one of these days as it is slow-
ing our operation down but the sacks and containers will be
taken . "
Wayne Roberts: Okay, if we set 100 gallons out on the curb
will the trash men pick it up if it has been disturbed by dogs
and strung all over the country side?"
Robbie Fickle: "No."
Wayne Roberts: "If it was in our three 30 gallon cans, it would
be."
Robbie Fickle: "We had this same problem before, Mr. Roberts,
the trash would be placed on the curb and the dogs and cats got
in it, and it was all over my neighborhood, all over, trash was
everywhere, and we didn't get our trash picked out of our yard
~..
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Thirteen
that dogs had spilled. Nir. Roberts, we have to abide by exactly
the same law. We may institute the law, initiate the law, but
we have to abide by it just the same as you people do."
Wayne Roberts: "Okay, I understand the City will nick up all
trash that is on the curb?"
Robbie Fickle: "Sir, did you get the little brochure that went
out with your Poly-Kart?"
Wayne Roberts: "Yes."
Robbie Fickle: "Okay, that tells you in there exactly what will
be picked up, when, and how."
Wayne Roberts: "What I am trying to establish is that there was
not an accumulative amount. I understood the Poly-Kart was all
they would pick up."
Robbie Fickle: "No, Mr. Williams explained that."
Wayne Roberts: "As a matter of record, they will pick up all
that is put out there?°'
Robbie Fickle: "As long as it is properly bagged, yes."
Mayor Spencer: "That doesn't mean junk cars and stuff like that.
That is not trash, That doesn't mean for you to go out and cut
a tree down in your yard and trim the limbs up and put it out
there for them to pick it up. That doesn't go as far as I am
concerned."
Mr. Westfall: I would like to know what the definition of trash
is. You have told me some things you won't pick up now I want
you to tell me what you will pick up and your definition of
trash."
Mayor Spencer: "As far as I am concerned, trash is your nor-
mal accumulation that you get out of your house, newspapers,
what little garbage you have, and grass clippings, small tree
limbs, and such as that. I don't consider that for a man to
have a log or part of a junk car or such as that to go out to
these trucks."
Mr. Westfall: "We don't expect cars to be hauled, but I think
a muffler and a piece of a tail pipe should be hauled."
Lyle Wasserman: "I think if you could take any of these arti-
cles and compress them into the Poly-Kart or into a plastic bag
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Fourteen
I imagine they will pick them un, but anything bigger would be
a special deal."
Shiela McCurry: "I would like to know how long these Karts are
guaranteed; if they fall apart before the guarantee, is the City
going to replace them?
Mayor Spencer: "Five years, and the manufacturer will replace
them, sure."
Steve Mudd: "The question was raised as to the cost of the
Karts and we were given a dollar figure of $42.79 each unassem-
bled, was what the Karts cost the City. The replacement value
would be $50.00 if the Kart had to be replaced by the owner and
the $50.00 would cover the assembly of the Kart, placement, and
service involved. Does the City have any comment?"
No comment from City.
Steve Mudd: "Okay, the question was raised how long the extra
dollar would be added on to the monthly bill. The City will
please correct me, the fee rate was established based on what
it will take to operate the service and show a profit and main-
tain the service and that decision would be decided by the Pub-
lic Works Authority if there would be a reduction in the fee."
Don Thompson: "The rate established is held by the Owasso City
Council. The Public Works Authority and the Council are all
one and the same but the rate is established by the Council,
not the Public Works Authority."
Steve Mudd: "Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read the ordinance
published in the paper today and it said the rates were to be
established and controlled by the Owasso Public Works Author-
ity.
Mayor Spencer: "Mr. Hilborne, could you answer that?"
Tom Hilborne: "Yes, Mr. Spencer, basically, the answer to that
is the Public Works Authority is the lessee of the utility sys-
tems and it is their responsibility to set the rates. Those
rates that are established by the Public Works Authority are
subject to be reviewed and changed by the City Council."
Harold Charney: "I would like to give you a little lesson to
help you understand an Authority. I believe back in 1973 a
Trust Authority was created. Now as Trust Authority, this City ""'
Council wears two hats. They sit as City Council and they get
through with the City Council meeting they then adjourn and
become the Owasso Public Works Authority so that the people
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Fifteen
that control the Authority also are your City Councilmen, but
we have set them up as a separate entity so they can operate
and take advantage of some laws the State of Oklahoma have
passed allowing Authorities to operate certain things and raise
money that they couldn't oterwise raise as a City. Okay, so
now, what the City did, it leased the water system to itself
back in 1973, and also at that time in 1973 authorized the
refuse to be taken over by Owasso Public Works Authority if it
wanted to. And then they leased it to the Owasso Public Works
Authority. It is like a corporation. Let's say you incorporate
to a corporation. The corporation is a legal and separate body
that can sue and be sued and yet you as individuals who run it
are really the corporation in a way, aren't you? But individ-
ually they treat you differently than when they treat you as a
corporation. This trust authority is a separate body and it
runs your water business for you. Now, this trust authority
can do something that the City dads can't, it can say we can
sell bonds to raise money for the payment of improvement to the
water system or the sewer system. They can sell them. A bond,
now, is a promissory note. A promissory note says I owe you
so much money. Well, this Trust Authority can put some bonds
out on the market. Say it wants to raise $285,000. This is a
copy of the last bond indebtedness that was issued by the Trust
Authority in order to pay that thing for this trash service.
Okay, now what they do instead of voting a tax on your property
and taxing your property to pay for this thing, they tax the
users of the system. When a Trust Authority takes over it
issues bonds and there are people out here, investors in the
market. Now revenue bonds are tax free. The interest they get
off them are tax free for these investors. So a lot of them
like to buy these bonds and they are put on the market for sale
and the City sold $285,000 worth of bonds to the investors out
here. People that have money and want to invest and the City
promised these investors they would pay back those bonds from
the money they collect from the water service and money they
collect from the sewer service. Am I losing you folks? Okay,
so the Trust Authority then has the authority to do this. It
says to these bond investors and, as a matter of law and State
Statutes, requires that the Trust Authority charge enough for
its services to guarantee the repayment of these bonds that they
sold for money to get to put the sewer and water system into
effect. It is Supreme Court backed. It is very legal. It is
used; you know the Airport Trust Authority out here with Tulsa
and there are several trust authorities, all cities are using
this so there is nothing subterfuge or illegal or anything of
anyone trying to pull the wool over your eyes. It is an easier
way for cities to get money and to do the things they need to
do as long as somebody thinks the City can pay whatever they
lend them. So the $285,000 is promised and the bond holders
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Sixteen
pay them back. Now, this is going to be real important, then I
will shutup. The interest rate was 6.026542 percent, so the
interest is really very low. The reason it is low is because
they are tax free. This Council is good honest people and they
are trying to do the best they can for this City."
The preceeding minutes were transcribed from a tape recorder.
At this point the City Clerk started the third side of a tape
and in the, process of beginning to transcribe the third side
discovered it had not recorded. Extremely vague notes were
taken as Clerk was relying on tape for transcription. The
following is what vague notes were hand written.
John Groth: "The Owasso Utility Authority was established as
we didn't wish to involve the people. What was the reason the
public utility was taken?"
Harold Charney replied with no notes made.
Steve Mudd: "How long will present trash rate be at the price
it is now?"
Mayor Spencer: "I don't think it will go down. We have got to
have it. There is one way to keep it from going up; if you will
abide by the rules and help take care of the Karts."
Shiela McCurry: "Why does the truck go up one side of the street
and then go down the other?"
Bill Williams: "It is designed to work from the right hand side."
Linda Wilcox: "I want to say when I put my Kart out and after
it is picked up they are all facing the same way in an orderly
fashion. With Mr. Sallee the cans were upside down with trash
blowing everywhere. These Karts are cleaner also."
Steve Mudd: "Could citizens haul their own trash without pen-
alty?"
Mrs. Fickle: "No. Our ordinances are explicit in saying that
all persons will have City refuse service."
Mrs. Arterburn: "It is my understanding we can hire a private
hauler of any kind?"
P'Iayor Spencer: "For anything that is not household refuse."
Opal Glisson: Only note made was "I begged Bud Sallee to pick
it up".
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Seventeen
Brad r2oody: "I talked to a private hauler in Springfield, Mis-
souri, as that's my home and they have an option there."
Don Thompson: "All I know is the man indicated he was making a
good profit at it."
Mr. Westfall: Asked a question in regard to rights of a person
to select their trash hauler.
Harold Charney: "You are controlled by that for the same rea-
son a man can't wire his own house."
Steve Mudd: "The number of Council required to vote on this was
four?"
Council: "Yes."
Steve Mudd: "Notification procedure for meetings is 24 hours
for a regular meeting and 48 hours for a special meeting?"
Mrs. Fickle: "Yes. On Thursday prior to Tuesday Council meet-
ing the Owasso Reporter publishes our Consent Agenda and by
5:00 PM on Monday prior to Tuesday meeting the complete agenda
is posted on bulletin board in City Hall."
Harold Charney stated now is a good time to tell the public t'nat
in July the City Council will be having public hearings for the
Revenue Sharing money and if the public would attend these hear-
ings it might prevent this type of situation reoccuring.
Steve Mudd: "Under the circumstances then, Karts must be right
at the curb?"
Bill Williams: "We have been going back to the houses to get
Karts but we do not want to make it a practice."
Steve Mudd: "The Fact Finding Committee for the Concerned Cit-
izens Group found no evidence for a Grand Jury investigation."
Steve Mudd: Questioned City about not enforcing payment of the
trash fee for Mr. Sallee.
Wayne Meyer: "Our ordinance reads water m_~, not will, be
turned off for non-payment of refuse. I researched the people
that did not pay during December, January and February and did
obtain this information. In December two did not pay for a
total amount of $2.55; in January two did not pay for a total
amount of $2.00; in February ten did not pay for a total amount
of $18.95, which is a three months total of non-payment of $20.85."
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Eighteen
Kyle Neighbors: "If these ordinances are going to be published
can they be published in a language so people with less educa-
tion can read them?"
Mayor Spencer: "Ask that man right there, he is the one that
publishes it."
Ralph Schaefer: "I don't even understand some of it myself."
Don Thompson: "We cannot change the wording. It must be pub-
lished as it reads."
Steve Mudd: Questioned the car wash and radio being considered.
Mayor Spencer: "As far as the car wash, I am for it."
Mrs. Fickle: "This car washing unit is not just for the refuse
trucks. It will be for the police cars and the fire trucks and
the entire City fleet."
Steve Mudd: "Will additional personnel be hired to operate the
car wash?"
Mrs. Fickle: "No, they will be washed by the drivers of the
vehicles, as they have in the past at the car wash."
Steve Mudd: "Has Council studied the difference in cost?"
Wayne Meyer: "I was instructed by Council at the last meeting
to provide them with what it is presently costing us to wash
our vehicles at the car wash."
Steve Mudd: Questioned the pickup truck for the Director of
Public Works.
Mrs. Fickle made a response to this question to which Clerk did
not make notes.
Mayor Spencer: "The City needs some new, good, equipment.
After it gets old it costs us money."
Steve Mudd: Commented they collected $50.00 to print notices
of this meeting of which they spent $45.50. They donated the
$4.50 remaining to the Senior Citizens.
Anita Wilson: "How could this system be set up so quickly and
ready to use in less than 30 days?"
a
Owasso City Council
March 22, 1979
Page Nineteen
Mayor Spencer: His reply was that the reason the equipment was
here so quickly was it was already on the assembly line for two
other cities that were not in an emergency situation as we were
and they gave us what was ready to ship to two other cities.
Anita Wilson: "I want to know just what were Bill Williams
qualifications for being given the job as Public Works Director?"
Mayor Spencer: "That was not an agenda item."
Anita Wilson: "It has to do with trash and I want an answer."
Mayor Spencer: "This meeting is adjourned."
Meeting was adjourned at 9:30 PM.
MAYO
v ~~~ ~
CITY CLERK